Senate Administrative Rules definition reads: "Provincial residence" means a Senator's residence in the province or territory for which the Senator is appointed.
B: So to qualify, must be a property in the province they're appointed? / A: Correct
B: tried hard to find definition of "primary" and "secondary" residence, but can't find them. / A: Correct, other than the 1998 document linking primary to provincial residence
B: There's no definition of "primary residence"? A: No. // B: There's no definition of "secondary residence"? A: No.
B: There's no definition of "primary residence"? A: No. B: There's no definition of "secondary residence"? A: No.
A: For the purposes of SARs, used terms "provincial residences" and "national capital residences". No definitions of primary or secondary residences.
We're on a 15 minute break until 3:30.
B: Will you agree that there's no definition/requirement on length of time in province? A: Right.
B: Listing questions/criteria: no criteria of # of nights, percentage, seasonal requirement, which house owned longer, which house valued more, type of structure, cottage/seasonal structure? A Says there are no criteria/requirements for each.
A: Cautions/argues that while there are no one criteria for provincial residence, you do have to be present in the province. Troubling that LeBreton memo says you can be in Ottawa for 99% of time.
Bayne later goes on now about "Senators' living expenses in the National Capital Region guidelines"
A: When we're getting into guidelines and policies, outside of my expertise. I deal with statutes. Guidelines dealt with by HR/Finance.
B:You're not here as expert witness. If you can't answer, say so can can be relevant.
Judge says Audcent is a very capable witness and will be allowed.
A: This document would have been written by director of finance
Re this guideline saying "primary residence", not in SAR, only previous wording was from 1998 internal economy report
A: When I'm looking at these guideline, my guess is it went back to 1998 report. It used the language back in 1998... so there is a link.
Bayne on guideline noting Senators who normally live 100 km outside Ottawa being eligible for NCR expenses
A: What stands out to me is "travel status", so when you're outside of home province and you're in Ottawa you're on travel status, yes
Bayne: Are you aware of Duffy's circumstances that he invested more than $100k? A: I have knowledge via news reports...
Bayne: New foundation, windows, etc. That's indicator for property?
A: Yes all of the facts are indicators, and they are indicator for the property
Bayne: They don't have to make declaration? A:They don't have to, it's only if claiming NCR benefit
What does Duffy's lawyer say about Brazeau's presence? "It's news to me and it isn't something we've arranged."
The day today will start with the continuation of defence's cross examination of crown witness Mark Audcent, former Senate law clerk.
Crown witness Sonia Makhlouf of Senate human resources is expected to be called to the stand once Audcent's testimony is finished.
Audcent wants to clarify his testimony yesterday about the "Qualifications for Senators" memo by Christopher McCreery, LeBreton staffer. He misunderstood the purpose of the memo. Believes - after reflection overnight and "it bothered me greatly" - the memo is not about residency. It is about qualifications of a Senator and if a question would come up in the Senate, which has never happened
In reference to Section 33 in the memo by McCreery, A: This memorandum isn't about residency. This is about qualification of Senator. That's what this memo is about. That's why it doesn't talk about residency. if you look at the date, it's after PM announcement
Re: sentence in memo about being in Ottawa 99% of the time. A: "in the context of whether it will be raised in the Senate, it makes perfect sense."
Context that it was after he was already appointed, after he signed the declaration, and a day before his first sitting. So Audcent says the memo was looking forward to next day's sitting and McCreery says that a *question on residency* wouldn't be raised. Audcent says it's likely true. It's not 'about residency'
On the 1998 Internal Economy report Audcent says this is the first time the term "Primary Residence" is mentioned.
Bayne asking on the Guidelines/Procedures document. Audcent says there aren't any definition, clarifying criteria, or indicators of what constitutes a primary residence. Only thing Audcent sees is it must be in province the Senator represents
A: "I don't see a definition of primary residence in the guidelines."
"I don't see any helpful or clarifying criteria"
Bayne going through new residency declaration forms. There are new indicators with need for driver's licence, health card, etc. ---
B: Did you play any role in changes on the declaration? A: I don't recall about being involved in changes on this from.
Audcent, though, says he was involved in 2013 SARs (Senate Administration Rules) changes changing the term "National Capital Residence" to "National Capital Accommodation"
Bayne shows current 2015/16 forms which uses the term "provincial/territorial residence" and not "primary"